January 29, 2007

The Question:  Some believe the Ap movement will divide in the next 5-10 years. If that occurs: What will the dividing issues be? What side of these issues will you be on? Why?

 

The Answer:  “(Railroad)ing the TV (advertising) vote (at the last UPCI General Conference).”

 

The Answer:  “I pray that God will only unite our organization, and not allow bitter pride to separate it. Unfortunately, this whole TV issue is starting to cause problems. Personally to me, I don’t mind if we decide to advertise on TV--so many millions of homes have them that I don’t know why it would be a bad idea. However, putting our church services on TV and things like--well, that’s another story.

But, in my opinion, if we would just become a little more prayerful and a little less (for lack a better word) “gossip-ful,” we would be so much better off. United we stand, divided we fall--and we are the United Pentecostal Church. We’ve had great revivals that are just beginning to pour out. If we can continue to work together over the next several years instead of having to worry about a split, we will be experiencing revivals like never before!”

The Answer:  “It will be over the little things. (TV, hair, etc). But the larger issue will be ‘What is holiness? Is it this list of things that I must/must not do or is it something else?’”

The Answer:  “The main dividing line will be over television. It will happen as soon as the UPC votes in advertising on television. This will be as fast as Haney can push it through. I have already left the UPC and will never step foot in another UPC church again unless I feel directly led to do so by God--same with the other Oneness organizations. I belong to an independent church and would never go to any other kind. The UPC is backslidden and is the leader of the pack of all the other backslidden ‘Apostolic’ organizations such as PAW, etc.”

The Answer:  “One of the major issues will relate to movies and television--the watchers vs. the non-watchers. I don’t watch television or movies, although there are some of each that I feel would not call into question my relationship with God. If it comes to a showdown, I prefer to err on the side of non-watchers as the Bible has clearly identified that we are to ‘put no unclean thing before our eyes.’” Television and movies are inherently unclean.

The second divisive issue will be the place of women in the church. We are already minimalized and dehumanized to the degree that one or two more sermons about the sanctity of manhood will have me standing up and walking out. I can see women building separate fellowships that are more responsive to women’s needs and which are more in line with the teachings of Jesus than the teachings of Paul.

Finally, there are theological issues such as the divinity of Jesus, i.e., the “lineage” of Jesus to David through Joseph, rather than Mary; the ridiculous idea that Jesus ‘received his blood from God’ - yes, I have heard that one preached and thought it rather flew in the face of ‘all man, all God’; and finally, the qualifications of a bishop, excluding women but allowing divorced males. I think it is fairly obvious where I stand on those.”

The Answer:  “The dividing issue will be standards of holiness, especially the TV issue. I will be on the side against advertising on TV.”

 

The Answer:  “The division, if it comes, will be along lines of traditional church government as opposed to more expansive/modern ways to actually run the daily church/reach out to the lost. Also, some of the ‘fringe’ lifestyle issues will impact as well. I might add that I think as an organization (UPCI), we shoot ourselves in the foot by making some matters a test of faith or fellowship, when in reality they have nothing to do with actual doctrine.”

The Answer:  “The perception of legalists and the notion of Bible holiness. Depending on the split, I’ll side against legalism and emphasis on the outward appearance.”

The Answer:  “It already is divided, at least in my eyes. If anything, the dividing issues will be standards (or lack of them) and some of the more general (not basic) doctrines of the Apostolic church.”

The Answer:  “Television and working together for the kingdom of God instead of our own little kingdoms. I am for promoting the truth anyway possible, except sinful.”

The Answer:  “Standards are a huge issue with many. Our best scholars can’t defend how we arrive at them. Also there is still the debate between those of a salvation through grace alone and the gifts of tongues come later. Some believe that without speaking in tongues no one can be saved. Again a doctrine that is indefensible in light of proper Bible exegesis. Which side of the “divide” will I be on? Guess!”

The Answer:  “My guess would be our holiness standard. I will be on the side of maintaining the holiness standard that I am currently accustomed to because I do believe it. My church would never let down on the standard and I don’t plan on leaving, either.”

The Answer:  “It will split in less then five years over the desire of some to use all media outlets to get the message out. With the imminent merging of the web and TV, the issue will come to a crossroad and some will go left while others will go right.”

The Answer:  “Standards! Standards people think of rules, rules, rules; they look only at judging people not sharing with them Jesus and his mercy and grace. I used to be caught up in the standards thing, but I am not anymore! I have the look, but now I have the love!”

The Answer:  “If the organization splits, it’ll look like it’s over the standards issue, but it’ll really be about our inability to live peaceably amidst disagreements over nonessential parts of scripture.

What side would I be on? The one who has more sound (emphasis on sound) biblical support for their actions and inactions and the one who places high priority on loving other people like they would want to be loved. At this point, it seems that the more liberal Apostolics (less strict on the standards issues) have a leg up on what it means to love people. I think outsiders don’t feel as guilted into looking or acting like them.

Personally, I’ve even felt like I’ve been held at bay by some of the more strict Apostolics because my T-shirt sleeves weren’t long enough or because I quoted a line from a movie. That hurts. When it comes down to it, I’m for any faction of the A/P movement who teaches people how to follow Jesus for themselves, and who holds to sound, biblical doctrine that supports Jesus’ summary of the scriptures in Matthew 22:37-40 and Luke 10:25-28 and Mark 12:28-34.

Also, I’d like to add that if we did split, we’d be repeating the history of the church for the last 1,800 years. They couldn’t agree on what was essential, either, so they divided from each other. I hope we can avoid excluding each other in the name of Jesus. Ultimately, my hope is not in an organization, but in Him. My camaraderie and friendships, though, are in the organization. I really don’t want to lose good friends just because we have different personal convictions.”

The Answer:  “TV and standards.”

The Answer:  “I believe it will be over holiness issues.”

The Answer:  “Yes, standards. The side that decides that reaching the lost is more important than if you cut your hair or wear dresses. We isolate so many that we could reach because of the standard issue.”

The Answer:  “The liberal side.”

The Answer:  “TV. I’ll be with those who have one.”

The Answer:  “Television will be the dividing issue and it’s not gonna take 5-10 years. I am against television because somehow it drains a person of spiritual power and authority. Hollywood has always and always will be anti-holy. For a person to sit down and allow unholy things to enter their lives and hearts is not a good thing. I do not want to form any alliance with the enemy. I do not want my life to be entertained, but I want to press on to a deeper walk in the Spirit.

Oh, I already know many people are gonna say, ‘Well, the Lord uses me this way and I watch TV seven days a week,’ but just think how much more the Lord could use you if you spent the time watching the boob tube with Him instead. It is one of the kind of thing that only comes through revelation.”

The Answer:  “The issues will be the standards that the UPC has always had and the doctrine of the trinity. I believe in the standards of the Bible and stand by them. Also, I choose to serve the only One God in the Bible. One god only.”

The Answer:  “I’m not sure that there will be a formal divide, but if so, it will probably be over the same types of issues that have divided in the past: the artifacts of our culture (standards: music, media, education) in places where they are taught as rules rather than the biblical truths that they should guide our decisions.”

The Answer:  “Television and standards. I have already left UPC.”

The Answer:  “Secular education vs. Bible school.”

The Answer:  “TV and standards will be the issues that divide the movement, which is a shame because these are not doctrinal issues. TV is not a heaven or hell issue, neither is a girl who only wears skirts. If you do or if you don’t do these things won’t determine your salvation. We need to get back to the real message and work toward reaching others no matter what even if it means having commercials on (shock!) TV or letting people feel welcomed regardless of sleeve length.”

The Answer:  “I’m not familiar with other organizations, but I do believe there will continue to be some pastors/churches who leave the UPCI. A portion of those will leave because the organization has ‘become too worldly,’ while the others will leave because the organization is ‘legalistic.’ I don’t hold a ministerial license, so I’m not a part of any organization. I am part of the Church, which will continue to grow and expand until Jesus returns again.”

The Answer:  “Media and Licensed Minister requirements. I will be true to my personal convictions. The world we live in has become a global economy, which is why it’s so important to know what the Bible says.”

The Answer:  “It will divide within the next five years. Issues will probably be the TV broadcasting issue and worldliness.”

The Answer:  “Media and dress standards. I will be with the conservatives because I have seen the shallow spirituality that so often follows the move toward being more like the ‘world.’”

The Answer:  “The divide will be over compromise: holiness, music, doctrine. Some pastors, preachers, and saints are letting up on things that Pentecostal pioneers fought and stood against. Many Apostolic churches and people want to bring the sound and beat of the world into the church. Too many Apostolic singers and musicians are wanting to compete with denominational musicians. God is not going to have a carnal church. I hope and pray that I’ll be part of the side that is sold out to God.”

The Answer:  “Standards. Kent (I believe) wrote an article on rules vs. principles a while back that I am still teaching on. If all we do, all we know are men’s rules, we will not be able to stand. If, however, we understand and teach the principles behind each stand(ard) we take, then we will be able, in the end, having done all, to stand. Me? I will stand with the Word.”

 

The Answer:  “Taking into consideration that the ‘Apostolic movement’ is defined broadly as adherents to Pentecostal soteriology and Oneness theology rather than any particular organization’s postural slant, without enough voices proclaiming a coherent Oneness message, the Apostolic movement will fracture along this pivotal line. Catch phrases like “Spirit-filled” and “a Holy Ghost church” lose all inherent meaning once assimilated into the larger Evangelical church culture.

As it is now, if asked, a room full of Apostolics give varied responses when defining Oneness doctrine and almost never adequately defend their position once pressed. The responsibility for the dearth of clearly articulated, unified and coherent averment falls squarely upon the shoulders of the five-fold ministry. As Paul explained, if the trumpet does not give a clear call, who will get ready for battle? (I Corinthians 14:8) Obviously the context of the preceding passage was concerning the abuse of tongues, but the inherent truth is that a garbled message is inadequate and a concise message is beneficial.”

The Answer:  “Some of the bigger AP churches are becoming so worldly and distance fellowship to the smaller AP churches. Something will happen.”

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