“I Determined Not to Walk Before the Cameras Until I had Received an Anointing.”

Wife Swap’s Steve and Kristin Hoover—The ninetyandnine.com Interview

Interviewed by Kent d Curry

 

Almost nine million people watched the Hoover family of Missouri participate in ABC’s Wife Swap last Monday, February 12, 2007. (No, the show isn’t as loathsome as its title. Its concept is simple: a wife switches with another for two weeks, with each “adopted wife” living by the house rules during the first week before the family has to live by the adopted wife’s rules the second week.)

 

Talk about some crazy/wild contradictions:

• An Apostolic family without a television in their home helped create the highest rated episode in Wife Swap history. Indeed, they hadn’t even seen an episode of the show until they had been approved to be participants.
• A former Old Order Mennonite stood firm in his religious standards without forcing them upon the adopted wife.
• The Mainstream Media proved that it will not always portray Christians in a negative manner.

 

Because ABC rushed this episode to air (in about four weeks), the Hoovers were unable to preview it. Last Monday, they viewed it for the first time with relatives at another person’s home. (The next day Kristin informed me they had watched it four times and still felt good about the portrayal.)

 

A majority of Apostolic viewers felt the producers were even-handed in their presentation, showing the emptiness of family life for the punk rockers and the regimentation within the Apostolic family, as well as the positives in both families.

 

Despite the pressures, Kristin was able to share her genuine love for God and a godly compassion in many scenes, though Steve was often portrayed as an inflexible patriarch protecting his children. (More on that below.)

 

Plus, while the televised Christian witness was obvious, the private witness is more difficult to quantify. For instance:

• After the final televised confrontation between the couples, the Hoovers went out to dinner with the Meeks. A producer said that was the first time any of the couples met together afterwards.
• After the show, Kristin received a note from a pastor’s wife of another faith who said God has been dealing with her on the “modesty” issue. Kristin’s televised actions had encouraged her when the pastor’s wife watched the episode. 

 

Who knows how God will use this effort in others?

 

Thanks to this response, the Hoovers have created a web site reflecting their lifestyle (Kristin is receiving multiple requests for her recipes, so they will soon be posted) and experiences at www.thehooverhouse.net.

 

Due to the show’s contractual obligations, neither was able to discuss the entire process in last week’s interview (before the show aired), so ninetyandnine had to wait until now to get the entire story. And what a story it is—though the final thoughts, with advice on not participating in reality TV, weren’t what I expected.

 

This interview took place over  February 13-17, 2007.

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90&9: How long have you guys been married now?

Kristin Hoover:  15 years in June.  It’s been the best 10 years of our lives!

 

90&9: What was your initial response(s) to seeing the program for the first time?

KH: We were elated.  We had been somewhat worried, bracing ourselves for the worst, and were relieved to see the editors did a favorable job in portraying our family.

 

90&9: ABC accommodated your requests about bleeping the curse words in the final show. Tell us about that.

KH: We were quite upset when we found the rating was going to be PG-L (L = Language) and sent e-mails voicing our displeasure. Our young children helped to make the episode, and yet they would not be able to view it with us. We were pleased they responded by bleeping out every curse word including words that would pass the rating.  The song Tony was practicing was bleeped, and it did not even contain cursing, only racy subject matter (this bleeping was done last minute). We thank the ABC editors for taking our concerns into consideration.

 

90&9: Was it ever explained why the word “Pentecostal” was edited out?

K&SH: We were not told why any of the final cuts were made.  Throughout the filming we only briefly referred to Pentecostal or UPC, and mostly stuck with “conservative Christian.”  Reality shows are careful not to show labels on clothing or food and even exclude business names.  This process is called ‘Greeking.’  It appears the UPC was ‘Greeked!’ 

 

It is interesting that you noticed Sister Agnew’s painting in our living room.  All of our beautiful artwork had to be taken down due to Greeking for copyright litigation issues.  However, since we knew Sis Agnew, and she was willing to fill out the paperwork to have her painting televised, one picture remained on our walls (receiving a lot of coverage during Tish’s rule change). 

 

So many beautiful people were able to risk a little by stepping out on the limb with us, helping us accomplish a mission.  To this we give a great big, “Thank you!”

 

KRISTIN’S THOUGHTS

90&9: You had a musical surprise awaiting you almost as soon as you arrived in Texas. Tell us about that.

KH: During our initial interviews, it seemed a light bulb turned on when our recruiter found we ‘shelter’ our kids from rock music.  She had asked what I envision for my children’s future, and I had said that my oldest is very musical, “Not that I would want her to be a rock star, but that she would use her music in church.”

 

From that moment on, many questions seemed to center around our opposition to rock music.  We had a big hunch there would be some music involved, but thought rather it would be a hip-hop family.

 

When I opened the door of the Meeks home, loud rock music blasted out, guitars were everywhere and there was a sound studio to boot.  Inside my mind, I gave God a high five!   Being a pediatric nurse for 10 years, I could handle the young children, and being heavily involved in our church’s music team, I knew I could handle the music end.  God had already equipped me for the situation!

 

Steve and I had taken a trip to Italy last fall for an international festival for chimney sweeps.  The German sweeps especially enjoyed their alcohol a little too much.  Although Steve and I did not have alcohol with our dinner, it seemed many would gravitate to our table, pull up their chairs, and enjoy fun, entertaining conversation.  I knew we could be more entertaining than the alcohol itself.  It helped me not be completely naïve to this atmosphere, and showed I could be a light in the world without being a part of it.

 

90&9: How did you learn the lyrics to those songs?

KH: The first night in Texas, Tony (and the ABC crew) tried to shock me with the lyrical content of the Meek’s band.  There are only a few songs on their two projects that have racy lyrics, but they tried to unnerve me from the beginning. 

 

By some ‘coincidence’ I immediately zeroed in on the song “Ordinary.”  When Tony sang it to me, instantly I knew this song was a cry out to God with phrases like “I want something more, no I won’t settle for this,” and “I’ve gotta make a change.”

 

There was little time for practice, so Tony and I went over it again and again in the morning before the camera crew was ready to roll.

 

90&9: Wife Swap showed you taking a long time to decide whether to front this party punk band in a bar or not. What made you decide to do it?      

KH: I thought long and hard about my involvement.  I felt I was representing far more than myself, and I had to stand as far from reproach as possible during the filming.  Off camera, when I told Tony that I would not be singing that night, he began negotiating.  He said he would try his best to remove alcohol from the stage area, and I could give a testimony to the crowd.  I could see a grey area formulating, but was still somewhat unsure.

 

I asked the crew if I could speak with my pastor to receive spiritual guidance on the issue.  They refused to let me have contact with anyone from ‘my world,’ but did allow me to talk with a respected UPC leader in Texas.  He prayed that God would lead me to do the right thing in this unusual situation, and his counsel to me was invaluable.

 

I knew I might offend some, however, there was a world out there needing to hear the message about my extraordinary God.  The opportunity outweighed the risk, and I took the plunge.

 

Some have stated, my testimony before singing was the best witness within the entire episode.

 

90&9: How many songs did you end up singing? What was the end result?

KH: I only sang one song, and then I left the Texas Tavern for good!

 

Outside, I was able to talk with some who stated my testimony made a very real impact on them. 

 

That evening, after the camera crew wrapped up, Tony and I had an awesome talk.  He said he had a feeling during the application process that God was going to send someone just like me, to remind him where he needed to be. He even prayed this would not happen.  As Tony put it, “God is just laughing His head off about now!”

 

I was able to talk with Tony about God’s unending love, and speak with him about the power of the Holy Ghost. I asked Tony if he would like to join me in my Bible reading for the night, and we opened to Acts 2.  The presence of God filled the room as we personalized verse 39 “For the promise is unto Tony, and to Hannah, and Benji and all who are afar off…”

 

90&9: Were there any other major surprises awaiting you?

KH: I was surprised that I would not be the only one formulating the rule changes.  I really wanted Tony to experience jammin’ Pentecostal music. I talked with the crew about importing Sis Foster and her awesome praise team (Dana Marlin included) from Dallas, or Larry Carter (that is, if they would agree), but the producers kept putting me off.  Finally, the producers agreed to do something, but the weather turned sour, and our ‘party’ was cancelled. 

 

At the coffee shop, due to copyright issues, we were only able to air something in public domain, so “Amazing Grace” it was. 

 

I was obviously shocked to find I was in a former pastor’s home.  Off camera, after our “dress is a religious issue with me” discussion, Tony asked what denomination I was, and said he was familiar with the Oneness people and the United Pentecostal organization.   I shouldn’t have been shocked, but after this moment I knew God had everything in control.  He was taking good care of me.

 

90&9: Now where did you stay at night?

KH: Tish and I were given locked rooms and the crews had access to the houses 24/7.

 

90&9: Had the Meeks children ever been in church or were the parents out of

church when they had them?

KH:  No.  The children knew very little about basic Bible stories.  

 

90&9: What was your most frustrating moment with the Meeks?

KH: One day, as a part of the rule change, we met with the general manager of an Austin radio station to review the band’s music and talk about the likelihood of stardom.   Tony was very nervous about this interview and difficult to be around.  Just before we went into the studio I had a straight talk (“Pull yourself together man!”) with him.  After we said a word of prayer together, a peace came over him, and he was awesome during the music review.  The scene didn’t make the cut, but I was very proud of him.

 

90&9: I understand there was a point where you offered to quit. What was that all about?

KH: The producers were pressing me to express more judgment, and push Tony harder.  From day one, Tony and I established a working relationship, and agreed in the end we would still be friends.

 

The director saw though this and needed more conflict.  The story line producer had to intervene and settle a dispute between an angry director and myself, a strong-willed woman.  Although the final cut portrayed me as an angel, my laid-back director commented that the show “wasn’t exactly a walk in the park.”

 

90&9: When Tony told you he lost his job, you looked like you weren’t sure if this was a contrived situation or real. What was going through your mind?

KH: Disbelief.  How could this be happening for real?

 

Often during difficulty, a person will reach out to the message a Christian is living day by day.  This was a real opportunity to minister in time of need.  Tony asked me for the first time to pray for him and his family.

 

90&9: Now in that scene you both were sitting at a table with a Bible between you. Was the Bible contrived or had something else happened there that didn’t make the cut?

KH: Tony wanted to prove my stance against alcohol was not biblically based.  He read a scripture in Proverbs 31:6 about giving someone wine because they are about to perish.  I was able to turn it around into a joke, “Tell me, Tony, are you about to die?  Are you about to go into detox?” And then, on a serious note, I talked how ministry should not be “given to drink,” and that Christians should be able to make good decisions at all times

 

Interestingly enough, after (the) scene, that Bible stayed lying on that bar in the garage.  I walked out a while later and an ABC crew member was bent over reading it. 

 

On another occasion I saw the crew huddling around a Bible, and one looked up and asked me, “Uh, Kristin, what does ‘begat’ mean?”  Oh well!  At least they were getting started.

 

90&9: Do you know if he’s found a job yet?

KH: Not yet.   Are there any openings at the Publishing House?  Does Harvestime need any new musicians?

 

90&9: Tell us about working with the ABC crew.

KH: Each home had a crew of eight people.  There is a director, and the assistant director, story line producer, camera man and his assistant, a sound man, and three PAs (the gofers).   The director in our home seemed to be a feminist and a perfectionist.  I was much relieved to see the crew more relaxed at the Meeks home.  

 

I was amazed at how young everyone was, and enjoyed hearing their stories of ‘show biz world.’  My director’s wife is a soap opera star.  The cameraman was full of stories of shooting scenes from Amazing Race (another reality show).  My storyline producer was from England and always had the right word for the moment (my favorite: “brilliant!”).

 

The sound guy always had me laughing. He was interested in my recipes.  The secret ingredient in my chocolate covered peanut butter balls is Rice Krispies.   The yummy coating on my Chicken Piccata recipe is Corn Flakes.  He kept asking what would come next “Fruit Loop Salmon” or “Co-Co Puff Oysters.”

 

After singing at the coffee shop with Tony, the crew decided to treat me to a night of downtown Austin, for my first experience of sushi.   Everyone was amazed at my willingness to try everything. (BTW raw octopus is nasty!)

 

90&9: Discuss your thoughts on the parenting styles of each family.   

KH: Some have expressed anger at the way the children are raised within the Meeks home.  I think much of it comes down to a philosophical perspective.

 

At a young age, Tish lost her mother due to breast cancer (her full story can be found, published in a Chicken Soup for The Soul book.)  She was made to fend for herself and didn’t quite know how.  Therefore, she has valued raising her own children to be very independent, and able to care for themselves. From her perspective, it’s not an issue of lazy parenting, but a desire to instill independence.

 

We have instead chosen to shelter our children, and provide a close knit family with intentional dependency on each other.  Had I lost my mother at an early age, I might think differently.

 

Although I disagree with the glorification of alcohol and party atmosphere around small children, understanding Tish’s story helped me reserve judgment.

 

90&9: In the follow-up interview on the show you said Steve standing up for your values was the “most romantic thing he has ever done.”  Please explain.

KH: I have traveled with Steve to many romantic places in the world like London, Paris, Italy, and the Alps of Switzerland.  Nothing compares to the love I felt when he remained firm in protecting our family in spite of outside pressures.

 

Steve and I had different roles in filming the episode, and he did very well.  He wasn’t just looking out for himself, but had three young children to be concerned with.  Some were skeptical Pentecostals would be mocked if we did this show.  However, Steve’s careful wording and rehearsal on doctrinal issues, helped us give concise, yet non-judgmental defense for our beliefs.  Though he took a strong stance, he did not impose his beliefs on Tish.  She continued to wear a nose ring and pink hair when she was being “Kristin.”

 

We were pressured to impose our disciplines on the Meeks, but refused, and did not request dresses for Tish and Hannah, even though we had authority to do so.

                

STEVE’S SIDE

90&9: In this episode you were shown as the hard guy, “the enforcer” in many encounters with Tish. Was that something ABC played up or is that how most of those incidents occurred?

Steve Hoover:  Kristin and I discussed early on in the filming (before she left for Texas) the story lines that appeared to be formulating in the Hoover house. Reality TV doesn’t just happen; there are many directors and editors involved. We were aware of the show’s propensity to find a real or supposed anomaly within a family.  It then seems to become a focus and is often exaggerated beyond reality. We were very concerned that shame might be brought to the body of Christ and thought of the possibilities:

 

a) We may harm the cause of Christ were we to be portrayed as “Bible Thumpers” who imposed narrow beliefs on those who did not share our faith.

 

b) We could do harm to our conservative Pentecostal faith if the focus remained on our Christian disciplines in regards to modesty and dress.

 

c) My heritage and the Mennonite faith and family could easily be mischaracterized as an anti-social, anti-intellectual cult.

 

d) I might be portrayed as an authoritarian father who demands a very structured home and is the unquestionable patriarch.

 

I was more comfortable in taking the heat personally, and determined to play up the latter any time I possibly could.  I planned in advance to take a hard line position. Kristin and I both understood the consequences of doing this and expected the final cut to be less favorable to me than to the other show participants. 

 

Did ABC also play it up? Absolutely!  They took the bait!  There are several examples of scene splicing to do just that.  Do I blame them for this? No.  It fit the story line and I was quite comfortable with the outcome, not to mention some of it added humor.

 

90&9: You acted quite disgusted with her first family meal. What happened there?

SH:  Tish and I may be the only ones to fully appreciate the superb job the editors did on this scene.  The “I was very disappointed with supper” line was imported from a later, private interview where Tish was not present, and the 10 – 15 minutes of table time was cut down to about 30 seconds. 

 

The viewers missed the fact that someone had intentionally traded out the normal “Chicken Piccatta” recipe.

 

Also missed was the “high five” of Steve and Tish in the kitchen immediately following the scene!

 

90&9: How did Tish do as a home schooling mother?

SH:  Given her very limited introduction to the curriculum and manuals, she did well. I was told to keep working in my office since I am not normally present when Kristin is teaching.

 

90&9: At one point she wanted to get the girls’ to wear pants. How did you handle that? Was the TV segment accurate?

SH:  The segment was accurate, I suppose.  It did not share the length of the scene and the follow-up discussions concerning Biblical modesty and our family’s expression of it, moral relativism, individual expression in young children and whether our position prevents them from experiencing culture.

 

90&9: You and Tish seemed to butt heads more than Kristin and Tony. Why do you think that was?

SH:  A primary goal of the show is for the “new moms” to have maximum impact on the family through the rule changes.  My leverage was simply noncompliance.

 

The Hoover family made it clear from the beginning they were not putting all cards on the table.  We would not go where our conscience did not grant permission.  The limits were being pushed from New York on the rule changes and several simply did not

allow my participation.  It was very evident to Tish and I both that they wanted to break my resolve.

There were 10 rule changes, not just the four or five addressed in the show. The girls and I complied with more than half of the rule changes (six out of 10) though most of my compliance did not make the final cut. 

I also had to resist in other scenes such as dying the girl’s hair, wearing an assortment of jewelry, and me dressing as a traditional woman and going shopping. Unlike Kristin, I did feel I was under constant assault.

 

90&9: Why was not wearing the empathy suit such a big deal?

SH:  First, I believed Kristin would view it as cross dressing and would not want me to wear it.  Secondly, I myself question whether a man can learn anything by strapping breasts on himself.  

 

The offer to carry a 50 lb. bag of dog food on my back while working in the kitchen all day was rejected by the directors.

 

The suit was not about empathy in this case, but rather humiliation.

 

90&9: Now, at the end you were rocking out with the girls for the music video. How long did the videoing process take? Were you pleased with the results?

SH:  The practice and filming for the video took most of the day.  At first, I was leery that profanity or vulgarity might be inserted, but Tish gave me her word and kept it.  I was able to relax with the choice of lyrics and had a great time with the kids.

 

90&9: Are you four ready to start touring?

SH:  Yes indeed!  Look for the on stage performance of “Red Fire” at IBC Music Festival and at General Conference this fall!

 

90&9: At the end of the show you were shown as loosening up a bit. Any regrets on how you acted and/or how you were portrayed?

SH:  I have no major regrets on my actions whatsoever.  Some of the narration was exaggerated and some scenes even spliced to get a desired effect, but that was out of my control.  In the end the Hoover family was among the satisfied viewers of the show.

 

The producers and editors did a great job in finding our existing views and positions, then extrapolating them in the mind of the viewers to produce the highest rated Wife Swap episode to date.

 

THE HOOVERS

90&9: How much of reality plays a part in reality TV?

K&SH: Many scenes are staged but not scripted. Staging can be set and timed to inflame emotions and desired effect.   (An example includes:) Waiting to bring the keg into the Hoover house until all neighbors are present and having a good time.  Steve was left with a difficult choice and chose to leave rather than fight in front of his girls and the guests.

 

The directors often ask leading questions or want to rephrase and condense your statements.  It is up to the show participant to only speak his own mind and not simply repeat what a director is saying.

 

90&9: Were you ever coerced by the producers to say certain lines or do certain things? The one instance that sticks out is when Steve asks Tish to make homemade pies for the party.

K&SH: Sure they try to coerce at times, though it may be subtle. This particular event was staged of course, but I didn’t need coercion to participate. 

A little confession: I think Tish responded mildly.   Had that been Kristin I was asking to bake pies, for unexpected guests coming in two hours, I would still be running!

 

90&9: I understand you guys also strategized to focus on the crib and cradle instead of other topics. Can you explain this?

K&SH: During all phases of the filming we were both transparent regarding our differing wishes on family size. We hoped this would surface later and provide another focus we were comfortable with, rather than one centered on our conservative dress or any perceived religious peculiarities. 

 

We weren’t disappointed.  Removal of the crib and cradle was not a rule change as Steve assumed it would be, but it became a penalty for Steve’s noncompliance with the empathy suit.

 

We also knew it would fit a storyline of Steve as the authoritarian father.

 

90&9: The cradle—where is it now: still in the shed, back in the side room or somewhere else?

K&SH: The cradle is back in its normal place, and it remains to be seen if Junior will ever fill it.  Negotiation continues!

 

90&9: Are you still in contact with the Meeks?

K&SH: Through anxious moments waiting for February 12, 2007, we made many calls back and forth.  Five minutes after our show aired we received a call from an elated Tish.  We have laughed about our favorite scenes and one liners; my favorite being when Tony says, “I think my Sunday School teacher just moved in!”

 

Tony called (earlier this week) excited that Tish and Hannah were making a meal together.  They are in the process of recording their newest project, and I have suggested “Everybody Loves Spring” is included.  We hope to visit them in Texas in the future.

         

90&9: Now participant families are awarded $20,000 each. I’m guessing you have some plans for that money after contributing to your favorite Pentecostal web zine..?

K&SH: Several have asked if we “did it for the money,” and the answer is, “No.” While we certainly welcome the funds, it was never a determining factor in whether we participated in the show. 

 

We plan on giving to the church and Uncle Sam first.  Our church also needs another projector screen and we plan to contribute.  Then we plan to either take a Disney Cruise or go to Disneyland as an entire family.

 

90&9: Your show was the highest rated in the show’s history. Would you recommend other Pentecostals diving into the reality TV waters?

K&SH: We do believe this was a “God Thing,” at the same time we would be very cautious about making any recommendations toward Reality TV involvement.  It was not easy and was emotionally taxing, especially in regards to matters of conscience.

 

For the Hoover family this was certainly an exception to the rule concerning our views of TV and major media entertainment.

 

90&9: Where to from here?

K&SH: We carefully considered our participation in Wife Swap and sought counsel from elders we respected.  I can say many hours of prayer took place before, during, and after the filming.  I was determined not to walk out of my room and into the light of the camera before I had been in the presence of God and received an anointing for that day.

 

We have received numerous phone calls and emails from strangers that were affected by our participation.  (Earlier this week), I walked through Wal-Mart for the first time after the show, and everyone wanted to pull me aside and talk about the episode.  Many said how uplifting the show was, and that we were a witness.  At that moment I realized no matter how much effort I put into door knocking, I would never reach nine million households with the message of God’s love.  My grandfather, the late Stanley Chambers, former superintendent of the UPCI, spoke in many countries and to large audiences. He may have addressed a few million in his lifetime, but for one hour, God allowed us to touch nearly nine million people.  This still astounds me!

 

We hope God continues to use us in ways we could never imagine! 

 

To God be the glory.

 

 

ninetyandnine.com

 

© 2007, Kent d Curry

 

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Kent d Curry is an executive editor at ninetyandnine.com.